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Post by littlefred747 on Sept 13, 2012 7:59:30 GMT -5
Guys, just been smokin over the the latest developments...it just seems like it's getting pretty clear that we have a M/A situation here. The tough decisions, divisions to be sold, lay-offs, firings, retirings...are all being made before the announcement as to protect the image or perception of the M/A company as the "Knight in Shining Armour" The bondsmen hate this because they will ONLY be made whole... Commons will love this, because we will be made whole X10...!!! News PENDING!
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Post by mikewestveer on Sept 13, 2012 8:02:12 GMT -5
What's the M/A buyout price Little Fred?
Couldn't agree with you more...
All the signs are pointing your way!
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Post by psalmchapter51 on Sept 13, 2012 8:05:32 GMT -5
What's the M/A buyout price Little Fred? Couldn't agree with you more... All the signs are pointing your way! Buyout price would likely depend on the ability to buyout, reduce or eliminate retiree benefits; i.e. the largest liability EK has. I believe the issue of retiree benefits is also on the agenda for 9/19. If they can settle this issue for a relatively small sum, we could be 5.00 - 10.00 per share easy. IMO.
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Post by TheBondKid on Sept 13, 2012 8:22:41 GMT -5
What's the M/A buyout price Little Fred? Couldn't agree with you more... All the signs are pointing your way! Buyout price would likely depend on the ability to buyout, reduce or eliminate retiree benefits; i.e. the largest liability EK has. I believe the issue of retiree benefits is also on the agenda for 9/19. If they can settle this issue for a relatively small sum, we could be 5.00 - 10.00 per share easy. IMO. Yeah Pensions are going to stand down so common gets $5 -$10.......LOL. Pensions and creditors will decide the amount.
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Post by psalmchapter51 on Sept 13, 2012 8:24:52 GMT -5
Buyout price would likely depend on the ability to buyout, reduce or eliminate retiree benefits; i.e. the largest liability EK has. I believe the issue of retiree benefits is also on the agenda for 9/19. If they can settle this issue for a relatively small sum, we could be 5.00 - 10.00 per share easy. IMO. Yeah Pensions are going to stand down so common gets $5 -$10.......LOL. Pensions and creditors will decide the amount. Healthcare and pensions are not one in the same. EK has been affording healthcare benefits to 10's of thousands of retirees. Cutting this alone will save hundreds of millions, or more, IMO.
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Post by mikewestveer on Sept 13, 2012 8:25:39 GMT -5
Kid, have you read anything Pro has written about pension reform?
As a stakeholder here as well I would expect you to be
1. More respectful to fellow stakeholders.
2. More aware of what is going on with your investment.
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Post by logik360 on Sept 13, 2012 8:36:46 GMT -5
What's the M/A buyout price Little Fred? Couldn't agree with you more... All the signs are pointing your way! Buyout price would likely depend on the ability to buyout, reduce or eliminate retiree benefits; i.e. the largest liability EK has. I believe the issue of retiree benefits is also on the agenda for 9/19. If they can settle this issue for a relatively small sum, we could be 5.00 - 10.00 per share easy. IMO. The retiree benefits remain a critical question that must be addressed prior to an acquisition. If this is on the agenda for the 19th, then we may have our answer then. Also there is the subject of NOLs: I've copied/pasted the following: What happens to an NOL if the corporation gets bought out? Is there a way for the successor corporation to take it over? How the acquisition is structured is critical. In an asset sale, the Seller’s tax attributes cannot be acquired by the Buyer. For that reason, NOLs may not be acquired and, therefore, may not be carried forward by the Buyer. If, however, the Buyer acquires the Seller by means of acquisition of its stock, whether directly or as a result of a merger, then the Seller will retain its tax attributes. However, given that the Seller has most likely incurred a change of control, the amount of NOLs that may be carried forward may be limited. Specifically, NOLs may be canceled if the Seller cease operations at any time during the first two years following the change in control. Moreover, the Buyer’s ability to make use of the Seller’s NOLs may be limited and/or amortize away over time. www.quora.com/What-happens-to-an-NOL-if-the-corporation-gets-bought-out-Is-there-a-way-for-the-successor-corporation-to-take-it-overAnd pertaining to South Korea: Use of NOL of surviving company (article 45 of the CTL): Before the revision, an existing NOL of the surviving company can be offset against future taxable income after a merger, whether the income is generated from the surviving company's business or the disappearing company's business, subject to certain exceptions. However, with mergers taking place on or after January 1 2009, NOL of the surviving company cannot be offset against future taxable income arising from the business of the disappearing company. Carry-forward of net operating losses (NOL) (article 13 of the CTL): Under the revision, NOL can be carried forward for 10 years (before the revision, it was five years). In a case when the NOL carried forward is offset against future taxable income after the expiry of the previous statute of limitations (five years or seven years) but within 10 years, the statute of limitations is also extended until the end of the one-year period after the due date for filing of the corporate income tax return for the fiscal year in which the NOL was offset against income. Also, the obligation to maintain accounting books is extended. This revision applies to NOL arising from fiscal year beginning on or after January 1 2009. www.itrworldtax.com/Guide/314/South-Korea.html
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Post by TheBondKid on Sept 13, 2012 8:45:36 GMT -5
Kid, have you read anything Pro has written about pension reform? As a stakeholder here as well I would expect you to be 1. More respectful to fellow stakeholders. 2. More aware of what is going on with your investment. But in a takover( including common) the buyer would be obligated to pay the pension liabilty(which is why buyers would rather just buy the assets while Kodak is in BK). A Buyer would factor into the purchase price the pension liabilty. I dont care what PRO says(hes never right) the buyer doesn't care that rates MIGHT rise in the future and pay off the liability(like ive said before, Japan has had zero rates for 20 years). So OPEB could leaves a 300-400 million obligation(after most is extinguished) and current pensions were 2 billion(how that shakes out in a takover? who knows) I would could see Samsung paying 3 billion tops for all of kodak. Kodak has 1.1 billion currently(approx includes current months burn) Total 4.1 billion Dip gets 700 senior lenders and trade creditors get approx 1.4 billion Total 2.1 billion Remaining obligations:Pensions 2 billion, OPEB reduced to 400 mil remaing debt 660 mil Total 3.1 billion Commons only hope was a successful auction of atleast 1 billion. You do the math This delay could be a buyout, which dont forget PRO said would NEVER happen. I ALWAYS said a buyout made the most sense.
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Post by mikewestveer on Sept 13, 2012 8:48:10 GMT -5
You're forgetting a FEW pieces of real estate, intangibles such as Kodak's trademark value, the value of the 10,000 other patents, ETC ETC ETC
You are obviously somewhat smart, why do you insist on being so NAIVE on some fronts...
Because you are a paid basher.
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Post by TheBondKid on Sept 13, 2012 8:51:39 GMT -5
You're forgetting a FEW pieces of real estate, intangibles such as Kodak's trademark value, the value of the 10,000 other patents, ETC ETC ETC You are obviously somewhat smart, why do you insist on being so NAIVE on some fronts... Because you are a paid basher. so another few hundred mil. I didnt include the 100 mill environmental money Kodak had to pay as well 100 mil here and there aint gonna make or break it for common Mike, truth is, you are only here to pump and do a day trade. you have NO long term agenda
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Post by mikewestveer on Sept 13, 2012 8:54:31 GMT -5
You think 3B is going to be the final offer for the WHOLE OF KODAK?
Including 1B in CASH?
Do you realize how much CASH these tech companies have right now?
They are SWIMMING IN IT
They are out to conquer the world... and strut like a peacock in front of their rivals...
You are indeed too conservative- in your investing, in your analysis, and IN YOUR GAINS!!!!
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Post by def1metk on Sept 13, 2012 8:54:50 GMT -5
100M for 10,000 patents? Talk about being silly....................
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Post by psalmchapter51 on Sept 13, 2012 8:55:26 GMT -5
You're forgetting a FEW pieces of real estate, intangibles such as Kodak's trademark value, the value of the 10,000 other patents, ETC ETC ETC You are obviously somewhat smart, why do you insist on being so NAIVE on some fronts... Because you are a paid basher. If there is so much upside genius, why aren't there any buyers buying stock at .22? Where are the brilliant speculators? They are trading other stocks. No news = out of sight, out of minds. WSJ did a great job instilling fear. There is a ton of money on the sideline. Any hint of M&A, or asset sale, will send EKDKQ reeling, and shorts running for cover. News is coming.
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Post by mikewestveer on Sept 13, 2012 8:59:08 GMT -5
Exactly. Herd mentality. They have to wait for others to jump in the pool before they are convinced the water is right.
I have studied this situation too much to be wrong...and even the clues for a layman should tip him off that something big is coming.
Unfortunately, the herd doesn't notice the lawyers being retained and the immensity of the radio silence that is occurring.
If it's not mentioned in the urinal, its not even happening to them.
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Post by Admin on Sept 13, 2012 9:01:06 GMT -5
Seriously guys, you really think a buyout is coming? I cant take another let down. I had a pretty rare morning. So overwhelmed by this. You guys have no idea how I am living and what i put into this. Please think about what you are saying before you disappoint an old beat up fool again (me). SBG
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Post by mikewestveer on Sept 13, 2012 9:04:23 GMT -5
I'm sorry about that Admin.
I think we just have to keep strong by knowing that if something bad was happening, it would have happened long ago.
Time is our friend in this matter.
The only fly in the ointment is that the bigwigs would sell the common down the river.
However, they are too big of holders of common to make that possible.
They are in it to win it- and so am I.
This is a fine, rare form of psychological torture though- this is a remarkable case with a remarkable series of events.
Stay Strong, and remember...it's only money!!!
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Post by Marriott on Sept 13, 2012 9:07:28 GMT -5
Admin and Mike:
Remember the adage : We Kodak holders are too pooped to FAIL.
We will get to the promised land of INTRINSIC VALUE. It's just not a straight line !
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Post by mikewestveer on Sept 13, 2012 9:09:53 GMT -5
Another thought-
what if a prospective buyer/acquirer has crunched the numbers and figured out a patent like 218 really does belong to Kodak, and that with hardcore lawsuits, it could upset the entire playing field of the modern cell phone industry?
That is a wild card that cannot be overlooked...A boulder of platinum stored in the vault with all the gold bars...
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Post by Marriott on Sept 13, 2012 9:20:52 GMT -5
" That is a wild card that cannot be overlooked... "
Mike:
The ITC ruling was harsh but in another court , you never know .
Interesting !
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