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Post by Admin on Sept 12, 2012 21:04:20 GMT -5
Was just thinking.
R & D is the lifeblood of a company.
Future products, technology for products or licensing, etc...
Is Kodak still maintaining a large R & D division?
If so, I could see how and why a company would want to buyout Kodak, with that amount of Brain Trusts in motion, why would you want to destroy that?
SBG
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Post by mikewestveer on Sept 12, 2012 21:07:48 GMT -5
From the # of cool patents granted lately, it still seems to be a priority...
Old-line American companies like Bell Labs (AT&T), Kodak, and 3M were R&D giants because they were awash in cash and realized that R&D that beat the pants off your rivals would be the surest road to more (competition-free) cash down the road.
Sadly in the age of Bain and financial debauchery we have forgotten that. This ethos was what made America great.
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Post by joeatkodak on Sept 12, 2012 21:28:32 GMT -5
Was just thinking. R & D is the lifeblood of a company. Future products, technology for products or licensing, etc... Is Kodak still maintaining a large R & D division? If so, I could see how and why a company would want to buyout Kodak, with that amount of Brain Trusts in motion, why would you want to destroy that? SBG SBG... Kodak's R&D went the way of film, as film sales were the primary funding (obviously). When Kodak acquired Scitex Digitial Printing, R&D at Kodak was still pretty strong, but was starting its fall. One of KRL's (Kodak Research Lab) final contributions was the Stream technology - which of course is what Prosper is based on. Funding was being cut about 10-15% / year starting around 2006, but other groups were being lumped into the R&D category - for tax reasons we assumed. It was obvious that the new blood at Kodak viewed R&D more of an expense than an investment. In 2007 and again in 2008, R&D was merged with Engineering (including support) and a lot of the brain power either left or were let go. Kodak has basically stopped being an innovator and is looking to simply survive. IMO, of course.
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Post by joeatkodak on Sept 12, 2012 21:30:39 GMT -5
From the # of cool patents granted lately, it still seems to be a priority... Old-line American companies like Bell Labs (AT&T), Kodak, and 3M were R&D giants because they were awash in cash and realized that R&D that beat the pants off your rivals would be the surest road to more (competition-free) cash down the road. Sadly in the age of Bain and financial debauchery we have forgotten that. This ethos was what made America great. Mike, a lot of the patents coming out of Kodak were actually started years ago. At least at Kodak, the process from filing to award was often nearly five years.
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Post by mikewestveer on Sept 12, 2012 21:31:30 GMT -5
Agreed.
They might not have anything in the pipeline, but old stuff from the mid-2000's is still being granted, which is what matters NOW
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Post by joeatkodak on Sept 12, 2012 21:37:08 GMT -5
I remember touring KRL a few years back and they showed us this thing that looked like a AA battery. It had a spinning disk inside of it, spinning at near absolute zero - obviously we were looking at a distance, as it was in a cyrogenic container. The guy said that it was possible for this device to generate almost a million watts of power. Incredible. And equally incredible, that guy (and department, for that matter) is probably no longer at Kodak.
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Post by mglassma on Sept 12, 2012 21:41:30 GMT -5
Joe,
Talk to your former buddies. Samsung is looking pretty good right now. They have the moolah to enforce these patents.
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Post by mikewestveer on Sept 12, 2012 21:43:09 GMT -5
Well Joe, if you're right, I don't want any sale to go through, no way-
not if Kodak has discovered perpetual motion and unlimited electricity in one thing the size of a battery!!
I would rather try to bring this to market!!!
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Post by joeatkodak on Sept 12, 2012 21:46:38 GMT -5
I just can't see Samsung acquiring Kodak unless it was purely for the patents. And BTW, they are not hearing anything about a buyout, which is odd there was always a buyout rumor going on...lol.... But like I said in another post several minutes ago, I think Ricoh would be a good match for Kodak.
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Post by joeatkodak on Sept 12, 2012 21:49:47 GMT -5
Well Joe, if you're right, I don't want any sale to go through, no way- not if Kodak has discovered perpetual motion and unlimited electricity in one thing the size of a battery!! I would rather try to bring this to market!!! You know, that was my feeling at the time... why not at least TRY to commericalize it? It would probably boggle the mind to know what ELSE was going on at KRL, and what was stopped because some bean counter felt it was not "core" to film... GRRRRRR
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Post by Admin on Sept 12, 2012 21:50:00 GMT -5
Wow Joe that lighing in a bottle sounded awesome! I heard there was a perpetual energy machine years ago that was suppressed. SBG
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Post by mikewestveer on Sept 12, 2012 21:51:36 GMT -5
My great-grandfather always tried to invent one of those, unfortunately he failed.
If my shares come through, I can get cracking on another of my life's ambitions- filing a few patents of my own!!
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Post by TheBondKid on Sept 12, 2012 21:53:35 GMT -5
Joe, you have never known anything, but what you've heard. Guys like you dont get the real info.....you are too low on the food chain
If you are NOT hearing rumors of a takover then there is a good chance it is possible. Not that there will be any money for common, but heck, you are only here cause you like gambling
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Post by Admin on Sept 12, 2012 21:53:43 GMT -5
I'm hoping to someday have a brain if this Kodak thing works out.
SBG
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Post by joeatkodak on Sept 12, 2012 21:54:17 GMT -5
Wow Joe that lighing in a bottle sounded awesome! I heard there was a perpetual energy machine years ago that was suppressed. SBG Actually, it was not a perpetual energy machine... its just that once the spinning disk neared absolute zero, the internal resistance of the device generating the magnetic field went to near zero, allowing an incredible amount of current to flow.
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Post by Admin on Sept 12, 2012 21:57:12 GMT -5
Sounds amazing.
I remember when I was a kid growing up, there was this kid I knew, who said he had developed a way to increase a cars gas mileage by like allot (cant remember the exact amount)
He said he would aeresolize the gas into vapor with harmonics.
Never knew if he was full of shit or not.
SBG
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Post by TheBondKid on Sept 12, 2012 21:59:07 GMT -5
I just can't see Samsung acquiring Kodak unless it was purely for the patents. And BTW, they are not hearing anything about a buyout, which is odd there was always a buyout rumor going on...lol.... But like I said in another post several minutes ago, I think Ricoh would be a good match for Kodak. But that is exactly why Samsung would acquire Kodak. THE PATENTS! Isn't that why everyone show'd up to the auction!? Now Samsung actually gets something for their 2 billion! They get all kodaks ebitda. This has always been the most logical outcome in my eyes. Especially since Apple has always tried to sabotage the auction. kodak then is forced to sell the ship to samsung cause thats what creditors would want......end of game
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Post by joeatkodak on Sept 12, 2012 22:03:53 GMT -5
Joe, you have never known anything, but what you've heard. Guys like you dont get the real info.....you are too low on the food chain If you are NOT hearing rumors of a takover then there is a good chance it is possible. Not that there will be any money for common, but heck, you are only here cause you like gambling I've never claimed to "know anything" relating to the BK. You had your sources. I had mine. In reality, you only know what you've concluded based on what you've read - and that is basically someone ELSE's opinion, someone ELSE's conculsion, or what Kodak wanted you to believe. So, you are free to interprete what you read and hear - the same as I. No more, no less. My opinion is well known. I expect (or expected) a pop on a patent sale. And a somewhat darker future for Kodak long term. Kodak has been harping on "Good times ahead" for almost seven years. And now they are in BK. So you must forgive me if my view is less than enthusiastic.
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Post by TheBondKid on Sept 12, 2012 22:08:14 GMT -5
Joe, you have never known anything, but what you've heard. Guys like you dont get the real info.....you are too low on the food chain If you are NOT hearing rumors of a takover then there is a good chance it is possible. Not that there will be any money for common, but heck, you are only here cause you like gambling I've never claimed to "know anything" relating to the BK. You had your sources. I had mine. In reality, you only know what you've concluded based on what you've read - and that is basically someone ELSE's opinion, someone ELSE's conculsion, or what Kodak wanted you to believe. So, you are free to interprete what you read and hear - the same as I. No more, no less. My opinion is well known. I expect (or expected) a pop on a patent sale. And a somewhat darker future for Kodak long term. Kodak has been harping on "Good times ahead" for almost seven years. And now they are in BK. So you must forgive me if my view is less than enthusiastic. You make alot of sense Joe, but after 7 years of being wrong Kodak is due to start being right. BTW, I dont have any sources. What I know is nothing more than speculation.
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Post by joeatkodak on Sept 12, 2012 22:08:17 GMT -5
I just can't see Samsung acquiring Kodak unless it was purely for the patents. And BTW, they are not hearing anything about a buyout, which is odd there was always a buyout rumor going on...lol.... But like I said in another post several minutes ago, I think Ricoh would be a good match for Kodak. But that is exactly why Samsung would acquire Kodak. THE PATENTS! Isn't that why everyone show'd up to the auction!? Now Samsung actually gets something for their 2 billion! They get all kodaks ebitda. This has always been the most logical outcome in my eyes. Especially since Apple has always tried to sabotage the auction. kodak then is forced to sell the ship to samsung cause thats what creditors would want......end of game Not a bad play if Samsung knew the commerical inkjet market. Otherwise you end up with Perez, Part II.
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Post by joeatkodak on Sept 12, 2012 22:16:26 GMT -5
I've never claimed to "know anything" relating to the BK. You had your sources. I had mine. In reality, you only know what you've concluded based on what you've read - and that is basically someone ELSE's opinion, someone ELSE's conculsion, or what Kodak wanted you to believe. So, you are free to interprete what you read and hear - the same as I. No more, no less. My opinion is well known. I expect (or expected) a pop on a patent sale. And a somewhat darker future for Kodak long term. Kodak has been harping on "Good times ahead" for almost seven years. And now they are in BK. So you must forgive me if my view is less than enthusiastic. You make alot of sense Joe, but after 7 years of being wrong Kodak is due to start being right. BTW, I dont have any sources. What I know is nothing more than speculation. True... but Kodak let the competition run away with the market. At one time, Kodak (or rather Scitex) was Number One. Period. End of Discussion. Then we got arrogant and first let InfoPrint in the market. Then Xerox (high speed, but not really inkjet), and then Oce, and finally HP. When there is competition, you can no longer dictate price and terms. And annuities begin to suffer. And then Prosper gets delayed and customers who were ready to buy (or rather upgrade), buy someone else.. And unlike cell phone contracts, a customer buys one of these babies and they are on the books for five to seven years. And... there is only a limited market for these beasts. Those kind of mistakes are very hard to overcome.
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Post by TheBondKid on Sept 12, 2012 22:22:19 GMT -5
You make alot of sense Joe, but after 7 years of being wrong Kodak is due to start being right. BTW, I dont have any sources. What I know is nothing more than speculation. True... but Kodak let the competition run away with the market. At one time, Kodak (or rather Scitex) was Number One. Period. End of Discussion. Then we got arrogant and first let InfoPrint in the market. Then Xerox (high speed, but not really inkjet), and then Oce, and finally HP. When there is competition, you can no longer dictate price and terms. And annuities begin to suffer. And then Prosper gets delayed and customers who were ready to buy (or rather upgrade), buy someone else.. And unlike cell phone contracts, a customer buys one of these babies and they are on the books for five to seven years. And... there is only a limited market for these beasts. Those kind of mistakes are very hard to overcome. It's sad Joe, everyone on this board is going to find out just how right YOU actually are and they aint gonna like it. You actually make sense. Pro just pumps smoke up everyones Ass
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Post by Admin on Sept 12, 2012 22:28:05 GMT -5
Hows it feel to be getting wiped out with us Kid?
If we are getting wiped, you can bet you ass so are you, lol!
You are 1 tiny rung up on the ladder, and its so frickin comical to sit here and watch you act as though you are in some Ivory tower with your bonds.
SBG
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Post by TheBondKid on Sept 12, 2012 22:35:22 GMT -5
Hows it feel to be getting wiped out with us Kid? If we are getting wiped, you can bet you ass so are you, lol! You are 1 tiny rung up on the ladder, and its so frickin comical to sit here and watch you act as though you are in some Ivory tower with your bonds. SBG Im not in an ivory tower at all. I think i will be lucky to make a small profit from 15 in the debt. I already know this ship has sunk. I dont invest based on Hope....... I am still hoping something comes from the patents. That will make the difference in the bonds being paid 70-90 or maybe just 10-15 But in the end kodak will sell all its asset and patents and most likely get 1.5-2 billion or reorganize. My bonds will participate in that.....get it yet? cause you dont seem to understand. There is value, its just not anywhere near what common needs to survive. There is 1.9 billion(DIP included) that needs to be satisfied before the next level of bonds participate(along with Pensioners in a pari parsu situation). Kokad has 1.1 billion on hand. You figure it out
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Post by TheBondKid on Sept 12, 2012 22:48:05 GMT -5
And dont forget the management has pegged their bonuses on returning 30 to the bond holders. So they will do everything in their power(even selling the co on the cheap) to get their bonuses......you can take that to the bank
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