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Post by Marriott on Jan 10, 2013 15:51:57 GMT -5
" Maybe that is why they are fine selling the big patents because cell phone related patents are not a core interest of theirs, but the stuff DEEP in Kodak's vaults IS. "
mike:
Like your optimism but the apparent conditions and sale of the patents was awful for our side !
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Post by mikewestveer on Jan 10, 2013 16:01:20 GMT -5
These two things CAN be mututally exclusive
1. The patent sale was not what we hoped for
2. Kodak is still worth 5 Billion dollars and is being bought out.
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Post by Admin on Jan 10, 2013 16:11:55 GMT -5
I would like to see that Mike, but it appears the management in charge doesnt know how to properly valuate a bag of potatoes, let alone a company with 4.5 billion in recurring annual revenue, 4 Billion of NOLs, treasure trove of highly monetizable IP, and assets all over the world.
The bottom line the up and running lines by themselves are worth 1 years Gross Revenue, now factor in everything else.
The legacy issues are still being negotiated down as we speak.
I am really bumbed out to see the patents go for 525 million with no revenue to follow. The past infringement of Apple and Rim, etc...
SBG
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Post by Marriott on Jan 10, 2013 16:13:57 GMT -5
" Kodak is still worth 5 Billion dollars and is being bought out ! " mike: Your optimism is worth $ 4.95 billion ( your stated value minus actual market capitalization ) . I sincerely hope your optimism is better monetized than the patents !
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Post by logik360 on Jan 10, 2013 16:51:35 GMT -5
General Imaging entered the camara market in 2006/2007. Note that General Imaging uses the GE license brand to sale a product line that is actually made in China. There is very little camera-related IP in the GE/General Imaging portfolios - VERY little. I've learned from a photography MB (DPReview) that the products might be designed in Japan and manufacturered in China. Some have speculated the following OEMs: Altek, Asia Optical or Ability Enterprise. Other experts swear that the GE line looks very Fuji-like. Others say it could be Hon Hai Precision, who recently bought Woodman Labs - makers of the GoPro products. According to Point 'N' Shoot founder Colin Glover: "The GE Power Pro X5, a 14 Megapixel bridge camera is an Asia Optical Design, to GE specificationd, developed by GE's Research and Development team in Tokyo"www.point-n-shoot.co.uk/ge-power-pro-x5.phpAsia Optical? Yes, the same Asia Optical that manufactured cameras for Kodak. What a tangled web. Anyway, when it introduced its line in 2006/2007, General Imaging was headed up by former Olympus president Hiroshi Komiya. Interestingly, in 2007 Mr. Komiya had the ambitious five-year goal to be among the world’s top three camera brands. www.digitaltrends.com/photography/general-imaging-launches-eight-cameras/In 2007, the top six brands were: 1. Canon 2. Sony 3. Kodak 4. Samsung 5. Nikon 6. Olympus In 2010, it looked like this: 1. Canon 2. Sony 3. Nikon 4. Samsung 5. Panasonic 6. Kodak In 2011: 1. Sony 2 Canon 3. Nikon 4. Samsung 5. Fujifilm 6. Panasonic Obviously GE is nowhere near its goal and many now wonder why GE even entered the market. Will it use Kodak's brand to gain a top-ten market presence? The Asia Optical rabbit hole demands further exploring!
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Post by logik360 on Jan 10, 2013 17:05:57 GMT -5
Apparently AO makes components / cameras for several of the major brands: Olympus, Canon, Pentax, Nikon, Agfa, Samsung to GE Also, read this excerpt and note mention of our old friend Mr. Atick. Two of the biggest customers of AOF are General Electric (GE) of the US and AgfaPhoto of Germany. It was a complete surprise to me that GE that I used to know as a popular brand of light bulbs and refrigerators now also produces digital cameras. The American giant has also diversified into power generation, financial services, aircraft engines, medical imaging and television programming. It was in 2007 when GE went into digital camera production. This I gathered from Hiroshi Seki, president and chief operating officer of Hong Kong-based General Imaging (Asia) Co., the licensed franchisee of GE digital cameras. Since they launched the digital camera line of GE, Seki said this has become the fastest growing mid-tier brand for low- and middle-income consumers. High-end GE digital cameras are affordably priced from P5,000 to P10,000. GE digital cameras entered the Philippine market almost at the same time they were introduced in the US market in 2007. Through the marketing genius of Rene Buhay, GE digital cameras cut into the market of more popular camera brands for their affordability and innovative features that caught the fancy of consumers, including non-professional photographers. Buhay is now the president of RedDot Imaging, the official licensee of AgfaPhoto, and is currently based in the US. In his briefing, Buhay made us understand that the penetration of digital cameras in the Philippines is a mere five percent. Cellular phones equipped with cameras, Buhay noted, have cut into the demand for digital cameras. The latest mobile phones even carry cameras with as much as 12-mega-pixel picture resolution. This is almost like using an instant camera. Both GE and Agfa digital cameras are distributed locally by I-Digi-World, now renamed as RedDot Philippines. Joe Atick, CEO of JA Capital Holdings, RedDot’s parent company based in Miami, Florida, and Dr. Hartmut Emans joined Lai in the reception for Philippine dealers and press invited to the AOF plant tour. “We are educating the Filipino consumer that this is a quality product that will do what it takes to do, as good as the high-end product of the top-notch brands,” Atick said. For his part, Emans shared Atick’s optimism on the Philippines as a growing market for their camera products and services. “It will be nicely designed, upgraded products of latest technology with additional features, that everybody will be able to afford. That’s why we are here in China. We are here with the producer. And we have a producer who is capable of really doing state of the art. So we will not be behind, but we will offer state-of-the-art technology,” Emans pointed out, referring to AOF. Buhay and Atick flew with us back in Manila last week to finalize business expansion plans in the Philippines. Buhay’s local counterpart in Manila is Dennie T. Dy, president of RedDot Philippines who along with his wife, Diane are keeping their competitors in the country on their toes. Aside from GE digital cameras, RedDot Philippines is set to unveil early next month the new digital camera of another popular brand that they would carry as its official franchisee here in the Philippines. But they are keeping it under wraps for now till the formal launching. Like the GE and Agfa digital cameras all stamped “Made in China,” consumers no longer frown upon such products that are manufactured through the fusion of different countries in this globalized trade and economic environment.www.philstar.com/opinion/730647/made-china
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Post by logik360 on Jan 10, 2013 17:09:01 GMT -5
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Post by logik360 on Jan 10, 2013 17:17:49 GMT -5
GE did its homework when it launched its brand with General Imaging: Leading sales efforts in North America will be Rene Buhay, a former Vice-President of Global Sales for ArcSoft who had also headed North American sales for both Samsung and Ricoh. Noted industrial designer Takeyoshi Kawano will be the company’s chief designer. Kawano’s design credits include the Sony Walkman, the Sony VAIO computer and the Olympus Stylus camera series.www.imaging-resource.com/EVENTS/PMAS07/1171393948.html
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Post by logik360 on Jan 10, 2013 17:51:18 GMT -5
Here is an excerpt from an OSK Research Report that mentions both GE and Kodak in relation to Asia Optical. The report further touches on the impact of Kodak's Chapter 11 on Asia Optical. The report provides a good up-to-date overview of the digital camera lens market (published in December 2012). On the other end of the spectrum, we have Taiwan players Asia Optical competing in another space for work on lower-end lens and on assembly work for the camera vendors. As mentioned earlier, it is also involved in the mobile lens area as well as projectors, aiming devices, laser range finder parts. It used to focus more on work for American firms like GE and Eastman Kodak but Kodak’s recent bankruptcy had its impact on Asia Optical’s business.research.osk188.com/attachments/88/osk-report-17dec12-lens-sector-part-ii-KwJR65972903950cfdba641b8c.pdf
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Post by logik360 on Jan 10, 2013 22:35:25 GMT -5
General Imaging's address also appears here as JK Imaging's address: www.kodakcamera.jkiltd.com/Compare these descriptions JK Imaging: JK Imaging, Ltd. is a privately held company headquartered in Los Angeles, California with 12 additional sales offices worldwide. The executive team is comprised of experienced sales and marketing officers with extensive backgrounds in digital imaging and global distribution. JK Imaging, Ltd. services North America, South America, Europe, Asia and the Middle East. For more information, visit www.kodakcamera.jkiltd.com. www.kodak.com/ek/US/en/Kodak_and_JK_Imaging_Announce_Brand_Licensing_Agreement_for_Consumer_Digital_Products.htmGeneral Imaging: General Imaging is headquartered in Los Angeles with offices in Tokyo, Hong Kong, London, Germany and Latin America. For more information about General Imaging products, please visit www.general-imaging.com. www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/08/idUS135551+08-Aug-2012+PRN20120808
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Post by logik360 on Jan 10, 2013 23:13:57 GMT -5
Here is some information on JK Imaging's website domain registration. Note the address for the 'registrant' and 'administrative contact' is the same as General Imaging's. Domain-name: jkiltd.com Similar-domains: jkiltd.net jkiltd.org Domain-ip: 0.0.0.0 Domain-tld: COM (Top Level Domain) Domain-locked: LOCKED Creation date: 2013-01-03 (7 days) Last update: 2013-01-03 Expiration date: 2014-01-03 Nameservers: DNS010.D.REGISTER.COM 216.21.236.10 United States DNS024.B.REGISTER.COM 216.21.232.24 United States DNS105.A.REGISTER.COM 216.21.231.105 United States Domain record: Domain Name: JKILTD.COM Registrar: REGISTER.COM, INC. Whois Server: whois.register.com Referral URL: www.register.comName Server: DNS010.D.REGISTER.COM Name Server: DNS024.B.REGISTER.COM Name Server: DNS105.A.REGISTER.COM Name Server: DNS116.C.REGISTER.COM Status: clientTransferProhibited Updated Date: 03-jan-2013 Creation Date: 03-jan-2013 Expiration Date: 03-jan-2014 Registrant: JK Imaging Ltd. Alex Lin 1411 W. 190th Street, Suite 550, Gardena, CA 90248, USA 1411 W. 190th Street, Suite 550, Gardena, CA 90248, USA Gardena, CA 90248 AS Phone: +1.886975456858 Email: alex.lin88@gmail.com Domain Name: jkiltd.com Created on..............: 2013-01-03 Expires on..............: 2014-01-03 Administrative Contact: JK Imaging Ltd. Alex Lin 1411 W. 190th Street, Suite 550, Gardena, CA 90248, USA 1411 W. 190th Street, Suite 550, Gardena, CA 90248, USA Gardena, CA 90248 AS Phone: +1.886975456858 Email: alex.lin88@gmail.com Technical Contact: Registercom Domain Registrar 12808 Gran Bay Pkwy West Jacksonville, FL 32258 US Phone: +1.9027492701 Email: alex.lin88@gmail.com www.whoismind.com/whois/jkiltd.com.html
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Post by malignment on Jan 10, 2013 23:33:24 GMT -5
Logik I don't see the administrative contact for General Imaging?
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Post by logik360 on Jan 10, 2013 23:43:43 GMT -5
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Post by malignment on Jan 11, 2013 0:18:11 GMT -5
Oh man Logik.. Nice! Even down to the Suite!! That is a sweet find, it really is a clincher that there IS a tight relationship!
I was thinking that they were just potentially renting a suite from GE, afterall didn't someone say it had a Toyota sign on the side of the building (just an ad?)? But same suite...
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Post by logik360 on Jan 11, 2013 0:19:42 GMT -5
Here is the domain registration for kodakcamera-jkiltd.com. Note that the email contacts for the registrant and administrative contacts correspond to aoci.com.tw, which is Asia OpticalDomain-name: kodakcamera-jkiltd.com Similar-domains: .net .org Domain-ip: 0.0.0.0 Domain-tld: COM (Top Level Domain) Domain-locked: LOCKED Creation date: 2013-01-03 (8 days) Last update: 2013-01-03 Expiration date: 2014-01-03 Nameservers: DNS010.D.REGISTER.COM 216.21.236.10 United States DNS012.B.REGISTER.COM 216.21.232.12 United States DNS119.A.REGISTER.COM 216.21.231.119 United States Domain record: Domain Name: KODAKCAMERA-JKILTD.COM Registrar: REGISTER.COM, INC. Whois Server: whois.register.com Referral URL: www.register.comName Server: DNS010.D.REGISTER.COM Name Server: DNS012.B.REGISTER.COM Name Server: DNS116.C.REGISTER.COM Name Server: DNS119.A.REGISTER.COM Status: clientTransferProhibited Updated Date: 03-jan-2013 Creation Date: 03-jan-2013 Expiration Date: 03-jan-2014 Registrant: Dong Guan Sintai Optical Co., Ltd. Shun-Yao Hsiao No.98,Anhe Rd,Tanzi Township, Taichung Country 42754,Taiwan .R.O.C Taichung, 427 - TW Phone: +1.886425342550 Email: mis@aoci.com.tw Domain Name: kodakcamera-jkiltd.com Created on..............: 2013-01-03 Expires on..............: 2014-01-03 Administrative Contact: Dong Guan Sintai Optical Co., Ltd. Shun-Yao Hsiao No.98,Anhe Rd,Tanzi Township, Taichung Country 42754,Taiwan .R.O.C Taichung, 427 - TW Phone: +1.886425342550 Email: mis@aoci.com.tw Technical Contact: Registercom Domain Registrar 12808 Gran Bay Pkwy West Jacksonville, FL 32258 US Phone: +1.9027492701 Email: DNS Servers: dns010.d.register.com dns116.c.register.com dns012.b.register.com dns119.a.register.com
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Post by logik360 on Jan 11, 2013 0:22:04 GMT -5
Oh man Logik.. Nice! Even down to the Suite!! That is a sweet find, it really is a clincher that there IS a tight relationship! I was thinking that they were just potentially renting a suite from GE, afterall didn't someone say it had a Toyota sign on the side of the building (just an ad?)? But same suite... The building is called Toyota Plaza. That is why there are red Toyota signs on two sides of the building.
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Post by logik360 on Jan 11, 2013 0:25:55 GMT -5
The JK Imaging deal with Kodak appears to have been set up with the coordination of General Imaging (GE) and Asian Optical. Now, where do we go from here?
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Post by halhansen on Jan 11, 2013 0:31:58 GMT -5
Fantastic research, Logik! You really are too darn good. I would have never ever been able to get there.
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Post by logik360 on Jan 11, 2013 0:40:31 GMT -5
Thanks Hal. Feel free to jump in this rabbit hole. It's getting interesting down here.
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Post by Admin on Jan 11, 2013 5:39:41 GMT -5
Holy Cow Logik!
That is incredible you were able to figure all this out!
Joe is well connected to put this JK deal together in a big way.
Lets hope they put out some top notch products to be able to compete with the other brands, then bring back the Kodak name!
SBG
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Post by logik360 on Jan 11, 2013 9:13:38 GMT -5
The same email (mis@aoci.com.tw) is also associated with the registrant of the Asia Optical domain. What this tells us is that the email is not just some individual at Asia Optical, but rather a corporate-designated account responsible for corporate web domain administration. whois.com.tw/web2/asia-optical.com.tw/index.html
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Post by mikewestveer on Jan 11, 2013 9:15:18 GMT -5
If we assume this is a JV between Asia Optical and GE Imaging, Kodak seems to be completely out of the picture!
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Post by Admin on Jan 11, 2013 9:21:19 GMT -5
I think you are missing it completely.
JK is the marketing arm, and asia optical is the mfg.
GE seems to be who is behind the deal.
Kodak ONLY has upside.
They all spend on marketing, manufacturing, distribution, warehousing, etc...
Kodak collects royalty checks.
SBG
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Post by logik360 on Jan 11, 2013 9:27:06 GMT -5
Not at all. The evidence is mounting that GE and Asia Optical are behind this licensing deal. Do you think that Kodak didn't do its due diligence in arguably what might be its most important asset... its brand? Kodak knows full well what is happening. JK Imaging is nothing more than a front for a deal between GE, Asia Optical, and Kodak. Clearly, JK Imaging benefits too.
We know that the deal involves at least the licensing of Kodak brand cameras. Obviously, Asia Optical is in the best position to make these cameras as they were Kodak's OEM. GE wants market share in the mid-priced camera market. The logical deduction is that it involves the personal imaging division. But there could be much more.
BTW, JK Imaging is a shell - everyone knows this. Joe Atick, while well connected, does not have 12 world-wide offices ... unless you were to count tiki huts in the Phillipines and SE Asia.
If we really wanted to press the matter, we could. The court should disclose all of these relationaships.
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Post by Admin on Jan 11, 2013 9:37:57 GMT -5
JK is marketing arm. In press release the company they use for print advertising, etc.. is IMS marketing. I spoke to the guy on the phone, Luis I think it was, its an old post here. Here is their website- www.imsmarketing.com/intro_eng.htmlThe previous deal Joe was head of and ran for 16 years is here: www.jaacx.com/They have about 20 mfgs they move product for. The sales volume I saw from 2011 was 4.3 million, not sure that is real or not. What is different with this deal is that they will be the Mother Tier, not some sub of a sub of a sub. Kodak will start with JK, and then they sub distribute down the chain to other distributors. The volume should be much higher, as long as the products are up to par with the other mfgs in this space. I didnt release this info I found the other day because i didnt want you guys to think the volume was not high enough, and therefore let you down. I knew for a fact if they are the top of the food chain for Kodak products, the volume will be much higher. It all depends on what they put out guys. If they put out shit, the volume will be low. If they put out cutting edge products, with the Kodak name it could be significant revenue for the company. Kodak is the 4th recognizable brand in the world I read. There is huge value here. But the market ONLY sustains products that are the best. The cream always rises to the top, no matter what! SBG
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Post by logik360 on Jan 11, 2013 9:46:36 GMT -5
The email mis@aoci.com.tw is also associated with the domain registration for Yorkey Optical, apparently this is Asia Optical's exporting arm. whois.domaintools.com/yorkey-optical.comCorrection: Yorkey is apparently AO's affiliate manufacturing plant: AOF’s affiliate manufacturing plant, Yorkey Optical Machinery Co. Ltd. which also situated in Dongguan, complements its full operation – generating plastic and metallic components of digital cameras, copiers, camera phones, as well as soft and hard cases for photographic equipment.This article again mentions RedDot, Mr. Buhay and Dennie Dy - who work directly with Joe Atick. mb.com.ph/node/337247/at-heart-imagingHere is the Yorkey website: www.yorkey-optical.com/
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Post by updated on Jan 11, 2013 10:04:50 GMT -5
Not at all. The evidence is mounting that GE and Asia Optical are behind this licensing deal. Do you think that Kodak didn't do its due diligence in arguably what might be its most important asset... its brand? Kodak knows full well what is happening. JK Imaging is nothing more than a front for a deal between GE, Asia Optical, and Kodak. Clearly, JK Imaging benefits too. We know that the deal involves at least the licensing of Kodak brand cameras. Obviously, Asia Optical is in the best position to make these cameras as they were Kodak's OEM. GE wants market share in the mid-priced camera market. The logical deduction is that it involves the personal imaging division. But there could be much more. BTW, JK Imaging is a shell - everyone knows this. Joe Atick, while well connected, does not have 12 world-wide offices ... unless you were to count tiki huts in the Phillipines and SE Asia. If we really wanted to press the matter, we could. The court should disclose all of these relationaships. Logic...I will accept a pps of 2% of ur IQ
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Post by mikewestveer on Jan 11, 2013 10:08:34 GMT -5
Adrian just wrote a letter that all the pain and hardship we have taken means Kodak at least owes us a few of these unredacted docs. If you write a letter saying we already know what is up, we own 10% of the float, and we owe it to those who own the other 90%, maybe Gropper would realize its time to start making some things public...
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Post by logik360 on Jan 11, 2013 10:17:37 GMT -5
Projectors. GE is making a push here. See their iPico personal projector for the iphone. www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/general-imaging-unveils-innovative-ipico-hand-held-projector-for-iphone-and-ipod-touch-165407526.htmlAsia Optical is also a leading manufacturing of pico projectors and conventional projector technology. It is likley GE's (general imaging's) manufacturer of the iPico. Asia Optical plans to improve yield rates for new product lines, namely, pico projectors, 3D home theater projectors, barcode trackers and blue laser displays, to increase potential revenues, the company indicated. Since Asia Optical has lowered the production cost of LCoS (liquid crystal on silicon) pico projectors to below US$20, the company expects to ship one million units built into handsets to China-based vendors and one million external LCoS pico projectors in 2012, the company said.www.researchinchina.com/news/NewsInfo.aspx?Id=29806Now we come full circle.... the iShow and Pix Pro trademark applications by JK Imaging. To launch projectors and home cinema products (and related software) with the brands of GE and Kodak would be brilliant.
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Post by adrian on Jan 11, 2013 10:22:46 GMT -5
I'm trying to focus a little bit at a time but just keep pounding away.I don't want the Judge to see value points based on the court proceeding as we know them. Also Kodak's lack of transparency to us over a long period of time.. They are suppose to protect the estate and someone needs to explain all of these fees and adjourments to all of us at some point. Let us stay with the facts as we know and keep at it.We never know who is reading this board. Lets show ourselves as fair minded people with class. No name calling or stupid statements we are above that. If I could only get SBG to calm down for he has many helpers. We need our General(SBG). Adrian
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